brodie helmet identification

What mythical beast could that be?? Fully restored with river gravel finis, M16 LW transitional helmet. For instance, we are all familiar with American troops digging up foxholes to serve as make-shift beds and trenches during the Battle of the Bulge in Belgium and eastern France in the winter of 1944. First questions and then the story. dailyinfo[25]=' 262952 Private Archibald Stanley BURGNEAY 8th Bn. (Jeff McIntosh/The Canadian Press via AP) - 2NHRH10 from Alamy's library of millions of high resolution stock photos, illustrations and vectors. Easiest well to tell if the shell is Brit or US is by how the chin strap bails are held in place. Available on our website now, Danish m23. dailyinfo[17]=' PLY/3566 Private Samuel ROBINSON H.M.S. The M1 came in two parts, a hard metal shell or cap on the outside, and an inner liner hat made out of softer and more malleable materials. The codeusuallystarts with a Z and is followedby a series of numbers. It's definitely a British Mk I helmet. He worked in WhiteHall prior to the war as a chartered surveyor. During World War 1, the U.S. adopted the Brodie Helmet, also called the British Mark 1. Specification. Ones with three holes drilled over the ears on each side didn't pass quality . and Gen. Hos. By knowing about a few small details the buyer will never make the mistake of purchase the wrong helmet. and Gen. Hos. Generally soldiers were still being issued cloth caps or leather headgear of a kind which offered little or no protection from modern artillery and the shrapnel which sprayed out from it. Thanks for the info lads. In total approximately seven and a half million Brodies were produced by the British by the time that the First World War came to an end in November 1918. He was in his early forties when the war broke out and he turned his attentions to developing a military helmet along the lines that the French had just produced with the Adrian helmet. Both the British and American helmets have marking stamped into the steel on the underside of the helmets skirt. The Great War Forum Limited var mydate=new Date() I'm thinking the lettering could refer to a department he possibly. It was the standard military issue helmet, albeit with some slight alterations to it, for American soldiers in the Korean War and the Vietnam War, as well as a whole host of smaller conflicts and deployments down to the early 1980s. While the basic structure of the M1 remained relatively unchanged in the years that followed, the liner went through many different designs. var day=mydate.getDay() To avoid a smooth reflective finish a small amount of river gravel was mixed into the paint. Could be Kenny, it's not a British stamp mark socould have beenmade by one of the allied countries , if, it is American then it could be a M1917AI used between 1936 - 1941, the same period the MKII chin-strap. Whether it be a small antique shop, militaria show or even an online auction. OPH It was in production already in the summer of 1915 when he was issued with his patent, but it would quickly evolve into a new design in the autumn as some deficiencies in the original were quickly removed and improvements were introduced. ww1, field, identification, tag, a e wilson, 10th, ambulance. Vimy Ridge?, First to adopt Motor machine guns, feared by the Germans for our Shok troop tacktics..HEE HEE HEE, just picking on you. Are there any markings on the helmet shell - between a rivet and the brim usually? used by someone in a fire department role, maybe a works fireman. Though we never call it that. The most widely recognised Air Raid Warden's helmet insignia is the two-inch high 'W'.Depending on the air raid warden's rank he would have either a black helmet with white 'W' or a white helmet with black 'W' (plus one or two one-inch bars (separated by a half-inch gap) to denote seniority within the wardens' service).However, there are a thousands of helmets from various localities with a . As a result, when the spectre of another war breaking out in Europe raised its head in the mid-1930s the US military were still arming infantrymen with the M1917. The series of number which follow the manufacture mark is a heating lot number used by the factory in the manufacturing process. Could somebody post a beginner's guide to what exactly a Brodie helmet is, if there was any other type of British helmet in WWI, and how they differed from WW2? It seems to happen frequently. While the US Manufacturers developed their own M1917 helmet and got production, up to speed, very few of the M1917s made it to the Western Front before the Armistice. Lincolnshire Regiment who died 05/03/1916 CITE BONJEAN MILITARY CEMETERY, ARMENTIERES France ' This dilemmaseems to become particularly problematic for the British reenactors who after spending hundred of dollars on their kit accidentally purchase an American helmet because they dont know the difference, or for collectors who want one or the other represented in their collection. var daym=mydate.getDate() Who can tell me about this helmet British WW1 or WW2 or..?? Paste as plain text instead, Your previous content has been restored. New Zealand Engineers who died 13/03/1918 ST. POL COMMUNAL CEMETERY EXTENSION France ' Helmets were procured from British supply until such point as the Americans could supply themselves with their own helmets. The Both the liners and the chinstrap on the British and its American cousin are almost identical. Accordingly the main actors in the war quickly began developing new headgear. The helmets from both countries are so similar that often times people believe that the Spanish helmet is a German helmet. After the introduction of the M1 helmet surplus M1917A1. There is also a drill hole on rear of the brim. Originally this was a hard-hat like support which was designed to fit inside the steel cap, offering comfort, support and an extra layer of protection. Colloquially, it was called the shrapnel helmet, battle bowler, Tommy helmet, tin hat, and in the United States the doughboy helmet. . Columbian Enameling & Stamping Co - Terre Haute - Indiana. JOHN THE BAPTIST, LAWRENCE AND ANN) CHURCHYARD United Kingdom ' The story, for many years I wanted a bog standard WW2 Cdn pattern helmet for my collection, mainly a display piece. 309.60 Buy It Now. It was replaced by the M1917AI. Royal Warwickshire Regiment who died 12/03/1918 ST. dailyinfo[19]=' 9228 Corporal George F. PARRY 2nd Bn. . on the American helmet they look very crudely overlapped. var fontend = '' I need your help to identify this helmet shell. Some American helmets tend to be a darker olive color, while others have paint identical to their British counter parts. Awesome, thanks for the replies. Those U.S. forces that worked with the French Army wore the Adrian Helmet. Pasted as rich text. Royal Welsh Fusiliers who died 11/03/1915 FAUQUISSART MILITARY CEMETERY, LAVENTIE France ' I have never seen one with a leather liner like this, it is spiralled around the entire helmet. This helmet, designated "Brodie's Steel Helmet, War Office Pattern" began fielding in October 1915 and gave the name of its inventor to an entire line of stamped steel helmets used by a large number of countries including Australia, Canada, New Zealand, and the United States (which adopted it as the M1917). The American shell is heavier. Should I get a replacement liner and chinstrap or just leave it as it is? "The French came up with the first 'proper' helmet. The M1 became the standard issue helmet for American servicemen during the Second World War following the USs entry into the conflict in the aftermath of the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbour in December 1941. It was made of 'Hadfield steel', which could withstand the impact of some shrapnel. Head Gear POOR MANS MILITARIA. Palace of Westminster Home Guard cap badge. Hi J.H.E. dailyinfo[4]=' Matrose Paul KURZKE Torpedoboot "G85" German Navy who died 04/03/1919 CANNOCK CHASE GERMAN MILITARY CEMETERY United Kingdom ' The British cleverly dealt with this problem by issuing their men with a Hessian cloth cover. It also depends on where the helmet came from, are you inthe US? Here's a list of WW2 American Helmet Liner Makers. leon21 Itsin rough shape and I have yet to find a manufacture/heat stamp. Capac = Capac Manufacturing Co - Michigan. . The threads that discuss the helmet will contain lots more information. Regards, Paul. Royal Marine Light Infantry who died 17/03/1918 BELLAVISTA OLD BRITISH CEMETERY Peru ' Its service history within the US armed forces spans a period of over forty years, being the standard issue military headgear for American soldiers between 1941 and 1983 and inspiring imitation models around the world. I don't think FKS has been definitively pinned down, but most sources say it represents Firth & Sons Ltd. lol. The A.E.F. After many experiments, Brodie came to the conclusion that a relatively simple form of helmet would offer reasonable protection, be serviceable and cheap to produce in large numbers. Display as a link instead, Identifying a Mk.1* British Civil Defence Brodie. If it's a highly desirable unit it drives the price up. Get 5% Off With Coupon Code itscold Offer Ends 3/1/2023, The Brodie to the M1: The Evolution of Americas Most Famous Military Helmet. The British 'Tommy' When the First World War erupted in the autumn of 1914 all of the major powers were lacking any type of military headgear which could offer effective protection in the face of modern warfare and weaponry. dailyinfo[16]=' 22659 Serjeant George SNELL Military Medal "T" Bty. The story, for many years I wanted a bog standard WW2 Cdn pattern helmet for my collection, mainly a display piece. The chinstrap bails on a British Mark I and a U.S. P17 are of a completely different design. before , possibly made by oneof the allied countries. http://www.cefresearch.com/phpBB2/index.php, Here is a reply from Roger Lucy, who wrote the book TIN LIDS, "In his article on the Mk.I in Militaria # 6, July, 1994, the British helmet guru, Marcus Cotton, suggests that FKS probably stands for Thos. In the case of the British Mark I there is typically a letter followed by a slash followed by another letter. Original WW1 US English AEF 79th ID British BRODIE M1916 Tommy 79 Helmet. Benjamin Electric Co - Des Plaines - Illinois. By DizzyDeano96 12 months ago. Adrian Blake takes a look at collecting such helmets and the huge range and variety that were in use. By About this item Reproduction of the World War Two British Brodie Helmet complete with a sprung webbing chin strap. Manufacturing Co - Philadelphia - Pennsylvania. If solid rivets, its US. Irish Guards who died 18/03/1916 CALAIS SOUTHERN CEMETERY France ' dailyinfo[21]=' L/32287 Driver John Frampton GAZE "O" Bty. This website uses cookies for functionality, analytics and advertising purposes as described in our, "I pressed forward with the others to watch the United States physically entering the War, so god-like, so magnificent, so splendidly unimpaired in comparison with the tired nerve-racked men of the British Army. dailyinfo[3]=' 45 Gunner HAZURA SINGH 31st Mountain Battery Indian Mountain Artillery who died 03/03/1920 TEHRAN MEMORIAL Iranm ' Do you know if he wasa civilian at this time, and could you take a photo of the inside of the helmet for me, and what. Irish Guards who died 18/03/1916 CALAIS SOUTHERN CEMETERY France ' If it is red paint then I would agree with Colin that fire serviceis likely, perhaps even from an RAF base. M1 fixed bail, 34th ID "Red Bull" w/ Mickey Mouse Camo. F Thomas Firth and Sons Sheffield 1916 1918, FS Thomas Firth and Sons, Sheffield sept. 1915 1919, HS Hadfields Ltd. jan. Sheffield 1916 1919, BS W Beardmore & Co. Ltd. jan. 1916 1919, A Edgar Allen and Co.Sheffield Ltd 1916 1918, HH Harrison Bros. & Howson Ltd. dec. 1915. Antiques, Stamps, Coins & Militaria. Frankston RSL Sub Branch Munition, German 75 mm. It's easy! Welcome to the forum, is the red definitely paint? Tom.Delahoyde The Brodie has been described by the Imperial War Museum as "a masterpiece of simple design", while militaria expert Martin Pegler calls it "the most instantly recognisable symbol of the British Tommy", although most troops would not have referred to it by by the same name. In conclusion, the M1 can probably be designated as the most successful combat helmet ever made. Yet, as well will now see, the Brodies legacy was even greater, for it provided the template for the more influential M1 helmet which was developed in America and which is the most significant military helmet of the twentieth century. During the war, the Company took part in fire watching duties, manned a gun at the exit to Westminster Underground Station and undertook a wide variety of training schemes. WW1 US AEF Unit Flashed Brodie Combat Helmet & Liner - $612.65. The result in 1940 was the M1, which was effectively an altered version of the M1917. Yet its use did not stop there. Danish m23. 354.85 Buy It Now. There should not be a threaded nut. ", You need to be a member in order to leave a comment. Royal Navy who died 15/03/1917 CHATHAM NAVAL MEMORIAL United Kingdom ' When separated from the liner, the steel cap could be used for many different things. WWII British Army MKII Brodie Helmet and Liner Restoration Service RESTORATION SERVICE ONLY. Hi Tom, it looks to me like it might be a Home Guard helmet but I will let Colin give his opinion first. Royal Marine Light Infantry who died 17/03/1918 BELLAVISTA OLD BRITISH CEMETERY Peru ' worked in or simply that he worked in a department in a parliamentary house, it's speculative at best I know ?. W. = Westinghouse Electric Co - Pennsylvania. dailyinfo[5]=' 12147 Private Harry COOK 8th Bn. This is an excellent . man in charge. I would say the paintwork on your helmet is original. U.S. M2 82nd Airborne Pathfinder Camo. dailyinfo[30]=' B/469 Worker Charles BARLOW Australian Munition Worker who died 30/01/1918 NORTH SHEEN CEMETERY United Kingdom ' Thank you for your reply. Leinster Regiment who died 27/02/1918 JERUSALEM MEMORIAL Israel and Palestine (including Gaza) ' Kings Royal Rifle Corps who died 02/03/1915 YPRES (MENIN GATE) MEMORIAL Belgium ' These have some 115716872255 He was the head ofthe South-West ministry of publics works. As for the number/letter code, that is the code for the manufacturer and the manufacturer's lot number. The main part of the helmet was the steel shell or cap which was produced from non-magnetic Hadfield Steel, a steel and manganese alloy similar to that which the British had begun to employ to make the Brodie helmet as early as 1916. "Orbita." SHIPPED TO "MRS. C DeSIMONE" IN MARCUS HOOK PENNA" FROM HER HUSBAND "PFC JOE . var fontstart = '' dgirardin 11 months ago. else { document.write(fontstart+"No major events today"+fontend); } They were produced Nov.1940 thru May 1941. My M1915 adrian helmet from the belgium army and british Brodie Mk1 helmet used from the USA, Haller's Blue Army Soldier: Uniform Identification. This used brass case is approximately 75 mm diameter and is marked with a 1916 manufacturing date. dailyinfo[31]=' 420628 Sapper William Bayne YOUNG 63rd Field Coy. Both helmets are non-magnetic. Though I do not know the code for the manufacturers. var dailyinfo= new Array(31) This is an excellent true combat example of a genuine Canadian Mark 1 steel helmet that is dated 1941. M16 LW transitional helmet. The most obvious difference may be observed by turning the helmet over. plant of Ford Motor Co of Philadelphia were they were painted and assembled. dailyinfo[24]=' Captain Denzil Robert THURSTON Air Force Cross Airship Training Wing (Cranwell). 5min video no sound date 1918 Military helmets manufactured at a factory in USA. The liner can always be a replacementthough that style screams WWI and should be held in place with a rivet.. I'm posting them as quick as I can wrap them up, Haven't tweeted in a while. . 3rd Bn. Clment. blunderbuss2 5 years ago. It looks like it's stamped 'JSS' above the date marking, which is the maker's mark for Joseph Sankey & Sons Ltd, who produced helmet shells from 1938 to 1941. dailyinfo[28]=' 19673 Leading Aircraftman Samuel Ambrose TICKNER Meritorious Service Medal No. For slow learners: A Brodie is simply the design of British Army helmet worn in both WWI and WW2, and not a particular type of WWI helmet? // Stop Define Variables for days of the month I suppose your cousins in the US would call it Tommy helmet the Germans went for salad bowl. In 1940 a Parliamentary Home Guard unit "The Palace of Westminster Company" was established, consisting of around one hundred Members and staff of both Houses. I would say the paintwork on your helmet is original. var dailyinfo= new Array(31) What pattern of helmet is this, and given the unusual markings, is it a valuable relic, or is it some fantasy piece suitable to be stripped and restored to issue green? Royal Navy who died 15/03/1917 CHATHAM NAVAL MEMORIAL United Kingdom ' First thing is to see if you can figure out the unit emblem on the helmet. The shell is an American made M1917A1 made by the ( McCord Radiator Co ) the heat stamp number( 10C ). WW1 Brodie Helmet - posted in Fallout 4 Mod Requests: Has anyone considered making a WW1 Brodie Helmet for Fallout 4? It is unknown what is any maker marks these companies used. Known Heat or Manufacturer Lot code Stamp Marks of M1917 shells. Royal Warwickshire Regiment who died 12/03/1918 ST. Depots simply would repaint helmets where the paint had lost its anti-reflective properties with an extremely heavy gravel finish. So is there actually a difference? I am also unsure whether he began workingin Parliament before or after the war, i will be able to tell you tomorrow though. Related Weapons & Armor. I'm putting in a picture. Worcestershire Regiment who died 23/02/1915 LOKER CHURCHYARD Belgium ' 2nd Bn. I bought it in France and I really don't know what kind of brodie is it and which army used it. | Est. Firth & Sons. Surely there is only one Great War Forum!!! Was wondering if anyone could give some more info on it. The real beardy types, anoraks and train spotters would only consider the type A and B as true Brodies. liners in them, so it would not matter if you were to put an other makers liner in it as long as it's the same date as the shell. Over time this would nullify any anti-reflective properties the finish possessed thus putting the wearing in danger. dailyinfo[15]=' SS/342 Able Seaman Henry George SMITH (RFR/CH/B/5534). You need to be a member in order to leave a comment. He said it has a separate rim and a serial number of ZA57. There is also a very faded 1st division emblem painted on the helmet. Such was the models effectiveness that large numbers of it were either purchased by nations from the US, or they developed their own clone or copycat models. Powered by Invision Community, (In no particular order) British chinstrap bail The chinstrap bails on a British Mark I and a U.S. P17 are of a completely different design. Accordingly, the American government purchased hundreds of thousands of Brodie helmets from the British as a stop-gap measure. An update on my helmet: a little light sanding and I was able to find the heat stamp, though this has only raised more questionsthe stamp is XHF. Yet more often than not the seller has no idea if the helmet is actually of British or American manufacture, and the buyer has no idea either. Category:Brodie helmets. The Spanish helmet had a great deal of German influence because Germany equiped the Spanish armed forces during its civil war. helmets which have a wide range of different paint colours and textures, most of these new helmetswere made in early 1941. dailyinfo[26]=' Chaplain 4th Class The Rev. Indeed so functional was it and easy to manufacture that the Brodie was purchased by many other countries and the design was adapted by several other European states and even by the United States. A later study at the end of the Second World War would show that approximately 54% of bullets which hit the M1 of servicemen in Europe and the Pacific failed to penetrate the helmet. The helmet is indeed a M1917A1 shell made by ( the McCord Radiator Co ) the stamp mark ( 4B ) is a heat, or batch stampnumber used for quality control. Sign up for a new account in our community. Both were manufactured using a similar process. These will comfortably fit a head size 57-58 cm, or a tight 59. "Orbita." document.write; 6 Reserve Lorry Park Royal Air Force who died 28/02/1919 BELGRADE CEMETERY Belgium ' The sellers description may read, American WWI helmet or British WWI helmet.